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Then come the peep-stones. These occupy the same place exactly as other forms of witchcraft and fortune-telling. A righteous man or woman, who had discovered in himself a gift and the accompanying stone for its exercise, would so instantly place the stone and the gift under the hands of the proper authority that no harm would accrue to himself or others through its use. A very good test to put to such a matter would be for the man who hears that such a man or woman has a peep-stone, to inquire at once: Does he or she use it under the direction and sanction and with the full knowledge and approval of the President of the Church? (p. 956)
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I am sorry if I sometimes appear to be sarcastic. I like you, and appreciate this website. I have always liked Mormons. When I talk to Mormon missionaries, I am aware that they are much than you are, so I am careful how I talk to them. I always treat them with courtesy and respect. I tell them that it takes a lot of courage to go around knocking on strange doors the way they do, especially in dangerous neighborhoods.
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Now there are many more places in the Bible to study this, I only scratched the surface to show the clear teaching throughout the Bible that faith in God/Jesus is what alone can save you. This isn t even the topic of the discussion, and I m sure you will pop up with a well what about this! or what about that! question, it is the same with every Mormon when their questions are sufficiently answered through the Bible, they have to keep throwing what they see as curve balls to try to justify their beliefs so they can sleep at night. But you need to read your bible yourself and ask God for understanding. Tell Him you want to know HIS TRUTH, no matter what it may be, and He is faithful and will reveal it to you. But you must read His word!
If Joseph Smith was a fraud where did the Book of Mormon
You also comment that knowing 8-9 intelligent people who have lost their testimonies is anecdotal, that it doesn t prove that everyone is faking it. I never said it did. Although it is interesting to note that of the 7 ACTIVE LDS people I have talked to about my issues with the church, 9 of them have expressed similar disbelief. (That s more than half!) They did not lose their testimonies they never had them to begin with. Every one of them had the same story earnest study, earnest prayers, faithfully serving in callings, doing everything they were asked, . No witness. No burning in the bosom. Heads full of real, legitimate doubts. In the end, they just keep doing the same thing over and over, hoping to get a different result. Oddly enough, they use these admissions in the hopes of trying to get me to come back to church! Its like they re saying, Hey look, if I can live a lie, so can you! It s a warped and twisted logic, but seems to fit right in with everything else in the church. You see, Joshua, you are wrong. Those who want to believe often don t believe, no matter how hard they try.
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The heading for Section 67 says that this revelation was given June 6879 through the Urim and Thummim. If this revelation were recorded, using these words, in June 6879, this would show that the words Urim and Thummim were used prior to 6888. However, the only copy of this revelation is found in Revelation Book 7. As noted in the Historical Introduction section of the online The Joseph Smith Papers:
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Therefore one can assume that the link between Masonry and the temple is myth but it could also be based on fact. This would be an indication that Joseph was, in fact, restoring the correct ancient order of the temple. Other indications of the ancient Biblical origins of the temple ceremony exist in a number of ancient documents going back to both the Old Testament Jews and to the New Testament Christians. See Hugh Nibly’s “Mormonism and Early Christianity” for instance and there are other works since Hugh Nibly’s time detailing these discoveries. The ancient prayer circle is described in early Christian documents. Tokens, handclasps, and markings on clothing are found in early Christian texts and drawings as well as in Egypt. Evidence strongly suggest an origin more ancient than Medieval Masonry.. Evidence is strong that Joseph Smith did not get temple ritual from Masonry but, rather, the Masons preserved something of temple ritual from God’s temple in ancient times and Joseph Smith restored it to its correct form by revelation.
First, I 8767 m deceived or I 8767 m deluded. If this is the case, at what point do the fruits of my beliefs match up with their illegitimate base? The point of Christ coming to Earth was to give us an example and Gospel to live by, and to die for our sins so that we could be forgiven of them and come again to live with him in heaven. As far as I can tell, I 8767 m living a Christ-centered life the same as my Christian brothers and sisters. You may say we value prophets too much and Christ too little. If you feel this way simply watch a General Conference session or read the Book of Mormon Christ and His Atonement are emphasized far greater than prophets in both.
Likewise, Jesus did institute an organization. He called a certain number of apostles, he taught certain doctrines, and his followers, who were in communication with him after his death and resurrection and therefore can be assumed were doing his will, instituted other offices within that organization (teachers, priests, deacons, etc.). Certain people had certain assignments, there were churches in certain places where people met for regular meetings, there was a prescribed process for being admitted as a member of the organization, etc. Again, if that doesn t sound like an organization then I think we have to reexamine what the word means.
Joseph Smith's move away from using instruments of folk magic contributed to the apostasy of some early Mormon believers. Members of the Whitmer family were so devoted to the importance of seer stones that David Whitmer, John Whitmer, and Hiram Page later dated the beginning of their own disenchantment with Mormonism at the time when Joseph Smith stopped using the seer stone as his instrument of revelation.
Apparently for convenience, Joseph often translated with the single seer stone rather than the two stones bound together to form the interpreters. These two instruments the interpreters and the seer stone were apparently interchangeable and worked in much the same way such that, in the course of time, Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term Urim and Thummim to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters.
Jeff Lindsay has compiled a decent list of evidences supporting the Book of Mormon , so I ll refer you there for starters. But of course if you think the only thing holding you back from re-assimilating yourself back into the Mormon church is a lack of archeological evidence then you re going to be waiting a long time, because archeological evidence alone will never convince anyone the Book of Mormon is true, just as the considerably greater evidence of the truthfulness of the Bible still fails to prove to many that it is true and not mere mythology. The only way you can know if the Book of Mormon is true is to ask God and get an answer. Otherwise you ll be filled with doubts every time you hear something new that seems to undermine the authenticity of the book, then you ll overcome it as those claims are debunked, and then you ll read something else against the book and have doubts again, and you ll never get anywhere.
The practice of showing pictures portraying Oliver Cowdery in full view of the plates while Joseph was translating needs to change. This was not what we were taught growing up in the Church. It also doesn't make sense, if Oliver Cowdery saw the plates all the time during the months he scribed for Joseph translating the Book of Mormon, why bother having the angel show Oliver the plates again? Growing up in the Church, we were all clearly taught that Oliver never saw the plates when he was scribing for Joseph. We were also taught that a curtain was placed between them so the scribe never saw the plates. Why did the Church change this account to an inaccurate version some decades ago? The evidence above clearly shows that Oliver never saw the plates when he was translating and that Joseph didn't even use them when he translated.
If garments are indeed something that God commands everyone to wear, then it's a necessary obligation, even if it is a burden at times. However, if it is not specifically commanded by God, then it is a totally unnecessary burden placed on millions of people. How would you like to find out in the afterlife that God didn't really care what kind of underwear you wore and that you wore them for nothing?
Mormons believe in polygamy. The church publicly denounced it when they realized the majority of society weren 8767 t exactly 8775 cool 8776 with it. Lets take divorce for instance. If a woman gets divorced after being sealed in the temple, she must get a 8776 temple divorce 8776 to get remarried, or 8775 resealed 8776 rather. On the other hand, a man can get divorced and sealed to as many women as he wants. He also, once reaching the celestial kingdom, has the ability to decide whether or not his wife, or wives, were worthy enough in life to join him in the celestial kingdom. A bit off topic but when you consider the founder of the religion, Joseph Smith, was a polygamist, having something like 89 wives (the being 69) it 8767 s hard to say they believe in monogamy, even though now theyve changed it. The polygamy/JosephSmith info can be found on the churches website.
That prisoner did offer his services that he never deceived him that prisoner looked through stone and described Josiah Stowel's house and outhouses, while at Palmyra at Simpson Stowel's, correctly that he had told about a painted tree, with a man's head painted upon it, by means of said stone. That he had been in company with prisoner digging for gold, and had the most implicit faith in prisoner's skill.
This is why I don&rsquo t try to prove the Book of Mormon is authentic. There is no objective proof. Evidence, yes, proof, no. Subjective proof, yes, you can get that by asking God, but it only works for the individual.
Uhhh proof IS evidence. If this is the only way one can prove the BoM to be true then, once again, it is false. Perhaps a thread should be started called Who Took the Moroni 65:8-5 Test and the Answer Came Back as Not True?
No, I think it is your comment that is silly. You see a follow up question in which a use of the word 8775 droves 8776 is acknowledged by the questioner as a probable overstatement. (Right? You see that don 8767 t you? 8775 I may be overstating it, but 8776 ). But twice the questioner asked about awareness, using the word 8775 aware. 8776 The answer was, 8775 We are aware. 8776 The most logical inference is that the answer related back to one or both of the questions about awareness. You see that don 8767 t you? You 8767 re not silly, are you? So, neither of the questions about awareness used the term 8775 droves. 8776 But the questioner said that his or her impression of the effect of Internet research could be overstated. There is no way that you can infer that the answer agreed that 8775 leaving in droves 8776 was an accurate characterization.
Thus, when critics claim that the extant fragments don’t contain the text Joseph Smith produced we agree with them. This fact was published by the LDS Church in their official magazine less than two months after acquiring the papyri fragments. Several follow up articles were published complete with photos and explanations that the text found thereon is not the Book of Abraham text. Here are the first three articles:
Critic's comment: It appears that Joseph Smith noticed the discrepancy and made up dates to fit a chronology that didn't actually exist to explain it. Most critics contend that the chronology was being formed through the writing of the Revelation Books, several years after the actual events occurred. Joseph was making up revelations to shape the Church into what he wanted it to be. As he was doing so, he confused a few events.
A potential solution to these complexities is to consider [D& C 65] a composite of two revelations, one from 6878 and the other 6879. The stylistic features of this revelation, however, strongly suggest that although JS may have received the first portion of the revelation in the summer of 6878, it was not actually written down until April or May 6879, along with the rest of the text. This revelation, written in the first-person voice of Jesus Christ, more closely resembles JS's April 6879 texts, which include such proclamations as behold I am God, than it does the July 6878 revelation, which speaks of God in the second person. [D& C 65] also lacks the typical signs of a composite revelation, such as an amen marking the end of a particular revelation within a larger text.More images «Best mormon dating websites»
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